Thanks for clicking by...

Gathered here are thoughts on literature, technology, education, religion, culture and anything else that interests me. I hope you enjoy your stay.

Please note, comments are (currently) unmoderated.

Discuss Mutiny!

Welcome Guest 

Show/Hide Header

Welcome Guest, posting in this forum requires registration.
Pages: [1] 2
Author Topic: Lots of questions
sharminime
Junior Pirate
Posts: 7
Post Lots of questions
on: September 4, 2012, 12:25

For me this reading of the prodigal son story raises lots of questions. Questions, initially, about how my relationship with my parents feeds into my relationship with God.
But then, more abstract questions. What does it mean for the bible to be the word of God? Did Jesus tell a bad story? Does this story have meanings that Jesus didn't intend? Is the 'moral' that Jesus was intending a flawed one? If so, what does that mean for how we see Jesus?
KB
Administrator
Posts: 6
Post Re: Lots of questions
on: September 4, 2012, 13:31

I don't think Jesus told a bad story. Quite the opposite - I think it's such a good story that it supports (as good parables/plays should) many readings. This, as I point out in the book, is one 'dark' reading. But it's one reading only.
In terms of this meaning that there are meanings that were not meant (h-hmmm) then I think we need to tread carefully. Did Shakespeare intend his plays to sustain every meaning that has been put on to them? Probably not, at the time, but he would have known that good writing allowed space for lots of things to come in to that. We have to remember that we are reading a story which has been recorded at a much later date, and is being put into a narrative that a writer (Luke in this case) has constructed to sustain an overall meaning in his gospel. I don't think this is problematic for the bible at all. Quite the opposite. What I found rather dull about preaching was that people were seemingly trying to get to the 'true' meaning all the time - and everyone who did it ended up at a slightly different truth. So in one sense, the permission to read in this way is very liberating, and more 'true'.
It is a powerful story, and one that does impact on our relationships with parents too.
sharminime
Junior Pirate
Posts: 7
Post Re: Lots of questions
on: September 4, 2012, 22:13

I am now sidetracked by considering the similarities and differences between Shakespeare and Jesus as storytellers...

But, for me, it comes down to this: the interpretation or reading I have of, say, the taming of the shrew, won't particularly affect my life. It might affect how I think of Shakespeare or how I would choose to direct the play given the opportunity, but not much more than that.
How I choose to read the bible affects me a bit more.

What does the 'darker' reading of the prodigal son story say about God? Should we automatically dismiss the idea that God is a power-hungry autocrat? (I spent some time as a teenager with people who believed so absolutely in God's right to be however God wanted that there's still a part of me that assumes that unpleasant things about God must be true).

Or, more broadly, what does it mean for our understanding of God when we open up the bible to multiple interpretations? How then do we arrive at any kind of understand of who God is?

I feel like some of these questions are postmodernism 101 and I should know the answer... Sorry if I'm a bit dense. I'm still emerging from a 25 year diet of 'God said it, I believe it, that settles it'.

KB
Administrator
Posts: 6
Post Re: Lots of questions
on: September 4, 2012, 22:53

See... I'm a big Shakespeare fan. Why is it that on 'Desert Island Discs' you are already given just 2 books: the bible and the complete works of Shakespeare? He wrote near-universally, and his plays have had, and continue to have, a profound effect on my life.

In terms of what the dark reading says, I'd probably say this: it says quite a lot about our religious projections of what God is like. And I think this is the key to what you call 'postmodernism 101' - opening the bible to multiple readings is really about admitting that we project - and cannot fail to project - readings on to any text. There is no 'one true meaning.' Language simply doesn't do that, because language is not the same as meaning.

In terms of how we then arrive at understanding, well...Jesus is interesting on that point. He doesn't say 'I'll send you a book, and just follow that.' He talks about the Spirit of God. And it's my belief that we have failed to understand what that means. We've denied it, then fetishised it in the charismatic movement, but are perhaps beginning to understand now that it is to do with the truth that emerges from a loving, just community - the sort of Libertatia that I talk about in the book.
sharminime
Junior Pirate
Posts: 7
Post Re: Lots of questions
on: September 5, 2012, 15:03

I am also a massive Shakespeare fan - currently very immersed in Shakespeare as I am putting together a show called 'the complete work of Shakespeare' for the Melbourne fringe festival.
But - how do I say this? - I feel freer to interpret and play with the text in ways that I am sure Shakespeare never intended. And if it turns out I am wrong in an interpretation - say, that Shakespeare intended the end of the two gentlemen of Verona as a straight 'happy ending' rather than with a twist of irony (as I suspect), then it matters very little in the end.
And I think that's because I'm happy to know Shakespeare only through his written work, and the same is not true of God.
Because if i am wrong in my interpretation of the bible, potentially then I misunderstand the nature of God and my relationship with God.

How do I even know that God values love and justice, except through the bible - and a vague feeling of 'rightness', which feeling can be easily turned on its head on the days when I feel bad and therefore assume God is not necessarily very nice?

Maybe I'm just too scared of getting it 'wrong', when in fact I don't think I believe God operates that way. But I could be wrong about how God operates...

Sorry if this is all a bit muddled and I genuinely don't want to sound aggressive or pushy. I very, very much appreciate you being a sounding board as I get my head around these ideas.
KB
Administrator
Posts: 6
Post Re: Lots of questions
on: September 5, 2012, 19:03

I don't think you need to have that fear. We need to be trusting and adventurous, as Jesus was himself. Otherwise we have a dad text that is restricted to just one meaning. I think so much damage has been done by people insisting that they have the 'right' interpretation - and yet, over time, those 'right' interpretations - which supported slavery and white male superiority - have been shown to be wrong in the light of culture and community.
I just don't think God would operate by declaring one text perfect - when God knew that that text would have to be translated into so many languages - an activity which is fraught with problems.
What's so freeing about Shakespeare is precisely that it is 'fiction.' Freed thus from the weight having to be 'true' it can be more true in a more beautiful and rich way. Sounds like a great piece, by the way!
sharminime
Junior Pirate
Posts: 7
Post Re: Lots of questions
on: September 6, 2012, 11:46

Wow, the idea of handling the bible like we did Shakespeare for the purpose of this production is kind of mind-blowing to me... We've been so ruthless and irreverent about Shakespeare, which is kind of the opposite of how I deal with the bible.
I'm going to think about that more... And maybe even try it as an experiement with the bible. Wow. It's kind of scary. But I think in a good way, if i can get past the nigglng feeling that God might smite me any minute.

So, then,the question for me is : is it possible to know God? How do we know God? How can I know God?
And, perhaps even more fundamentally, is there any evidence that God loves me? Or just a hunch?
KB
Administrator
Posts: 6
Post Re: Lots of questions
on: September 6, 2012, 17:37

Give it a go! I think the text - and God - should be robust enough to handle it. Says something if they're not.

I think that there is love in the world is a profound thing. That we are able to love, and to experience love, is amazing. And I think we know more than we probably allow ourselves to admit. People have relied on being told things by authority figures for so long - their relationship with what is 'true' and allowed and right, their relationship with God entirely perhaps, has been mediated by priests and others. So I'd say think about what your heart tells you, and jump in that direction. I wish I could be definitive in some way... but I just can't.
sharminime
Junior Pirate
Posts: 7
Post Re: Lots of questions
on: September 6, 2012, 21:48

My brain is buzzing with the idea of taking a lighter and more creative approach to some of the themes in the bible (which are also in Shakespeare, since I guess they are human concerns)... Violence, death, music, gender, illness, power and money....

Yep, I think I agree that love is a good place to start.

Thank you so much. I'm just loving some of the new thoughts and ideas that you have helped birth.

sharminime
Junior Pirate
Posts: 7
Post Re: Lots of questions
on: September 6, 2012, 22:59

Also, I think it's hilarious that this discussion board refers to me as a junior pirate.

Pages: [1] 2
Mingle Forum by cartpauj
Version: 1.0.33.2 ; Page loaded in: 0.084 seconds.
Share