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	<title>Comments on: Theology and the New Physics [4] &#8211; Reality is a Collapsed Wavefunction</title>
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	<link>http://www.kesterbrewin.com/2009/06/08/theology-and-the-new-physics-4-reality-is-a-collapsed-wavefunction/</link>
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		<title>By: JJ</title>
		<link>http://www.kesterbrewin.com/2009/06/08/theology-and-the-new-physics-4-reality-is-a-collapsed-wavefunction/comment-page-1/#comment-2038</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:15:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I see my comment on #5 was premature. You already dealt with it here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see my comment on #5 was premature. You already dealt with it here.</p>
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		<title>By: Reader Jorj</title>
		<link>http://www.kesterbrewin.com/2009/06/08/theology-and-the-new-physics-4-reality-is-a-collapsed-wavefunction/comment-page-1/#comment-2010</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader Jorj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kesterbrewin.com/?p=756#comment-2010</guid>
		<description>Willard Quine once said that no two people can see the same object from the same point of view because as they change places the objct ages.

The philosophical idea that things are real because God observes them is quite an old one and does no require an appeal to quantum theory.

I find any discussion of quantum theory as if it told us something about the real world less than enlightening. First of all it is still a contingent theory. Secondly such things as &quot;collapsed waveforms&quot; are descriptions of how the mathematics is interpreted within the model. It&#039;s a bit like using geometry in the context of building a house. Talking about points having no size, lines having no width and planes having no thickness is all very Euclid, but it has no useful meaning in the particular context.

In the end all theories of how the world works are phenomenological. After all, string theorists don&#039;t expect us to think that particles really are little bits of string.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Willard Quine once said that no two people can see the same object from the same point of view because as they change places the objct ages.</p>
<p>The philosophical idea that things are real because God observes them is quite an old one and does no require an appeal to quantum theory.</p>
<p>I find any discussion of quantum theory as if it told us something about the real world less than enlightening. First of all it is still a contingent theory. Secondly such things as &#8220;collapsed waveforms&#8221; are descriptions of how the mathematics is interpreted within the model. It&#8217;s a bit like using geometry in the context of building a house. Talking about points having no size, lines having no width and planes having no thickness is all very Euclid, but it has no useful meaning in the particular context.</p>
<p>In the end all theories of how the world works are phenomenological. After all, string theorists don&#8217;t expect us to think that particles really are little bits of string.</p>
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		<title>By: KB</title>
		<link>http://www.kesterbrewin.com/2009/06/08/theology-and-the-new-physics-4-reality-is-a-collapsed-wavefunction/comment-page-1/#comment-2009</link>
		<dc:creator>KB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That&#039;s a very good question, and becomes a philosophical one too: to what extent is the reality that we experience the same as the reality that other co-observers experience alongside us? Or are we experiencing a subjective form of reality, while God as super-observer is experiencing something more objective? In this sense, God as all-seeing is intimate connected with God as sustainer/originator, and it is the width and scope of that vision that leads to the full objectivity.

This, I think is the trouble with the classic post-modern position: each individual observer collapses their own reality, and this, as you say, is a lonely and isolating place. One thought-experiment that comes into play here is that of &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_suicide&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Quantum Suicide&lt;/a&gt; and the idea of Quantum Immortality, but I want to deal with that in the next post, as it requires us to think about the Many Worlds Interpretation too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a very good question, and becomes a philosophical one too: to what extent is the reality that we experience the same as the reality that other co-observers experience alongside us? Or are we experiencing a subjective form of reality, while God as super-observer is experiencing something more objective? In this sense, God as all-seeing is intimate connected with God as sustainer/originator, and it is the width and scope of that vision that leads to the full objectivity.</p>
<p>This, I think is the trouble with the classic post-modern position: each individual observer collapses their own reality, and this, as you say, is a lonely and isolating place. One thought-experiment that comes into play here is that of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_suicide" rel="nofollow">Quantum Suicide</a> and the idea of Quantum Immortality, but I want to deal with that in the next post, as it requires us to think about the Many Worlds Interpretation too.</p>
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		<title>By: Lori</title>
		<link>http://www.kesterbrewin.com/2009/06/08/theology-and-the-new-physics-4-reality-is-a-collapsed-wavefunction/comment-page-1/#comment-2008</link>
		<dc:creator>Lori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Based on our understanding of a wavefunction collapse, do multiple observers experience the same event?  Is it possible for one observer to observe, and for other non-observers to experience a related effect, without actually observing the event itself?

I wonder this because it has implications for an understanding of God as observer/creator.  If, in fact, one external observer is sufficient to &quot;create&quot; a large-scale reality, I&#039;d agree it provides remarkable evidence of God as &quot;creator and sustainer&quot; on levels we&#039;d never before imagined.  However, could human reality instead prove to be a collection of individually observed micro-events?  If so, we would find ourselves in a hopelessly isolated position, confined to our own observations and entirely excluded from those of others.  Now there&#039;s a nightmare I hope science never asks me to stare down!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on our understanding of a wavefunction collapse, do multiple observers experience the same event?  Is it possible for one observer to observe, and for other non-observers to experience a related effect, without actually observing the event itself?</p>
<p>I wonder this because it has implications for an understanding of God as observer/creator.  If, in fact, one external observer is sufficient to &#8220;create&#8221; a large-scale reality, I&#8217;d agree it provides remarkable evidence of God as &#8220;creator and sustainer&#8221; on levels we&#8217;d never before imagined.  However, could human reality instead prove to be a collection of individually observed micro-events?  If so, we would find ourselves in a hopelessly isolated position, confined to our own observations and entirely excluded from those of others.  Now there&#8217;s a nightmare I hope science never asks me to stare down!</p>
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